Freddie Gibbs and The Alchemist are playing the long game.
Five years after they dropped their Grammy-nominated collab album Alfredo, the midwest rapper and the west coast producer decided to go bigger with the sequel by heading to Japan to give fans a short film centered around the Yakuza underworld where they run a ramen shop that launders money for organized crime figures. They had so much making and shooting Alfredo: The Movie that Freddie doesn’t want to release an album again without attaching a short film to it.
Gangsta Gibbs and Uncle Al stopped by Billboard’s New York office earlier this week with a big bag of food, so that we could break bread and talk about everything from the chemistry they’ve built by working together to their love of independence to the both of them addressing rumors that range from the upcoming Grand Theft Auto game to Freddie’s alleged powwow with former collaborator Benny the Butcher to whether or not Al sent a beat pack to Future.
In short, we covered a ton of topics.
The conversation picks up as we were having a conversation over some Sophie’s cuban cuisine about the type of rap music they make. Check out our lengthy, yet entertaining conversation below.
Freddie Gibbs: To be honest, man, it just speaks to the longevity of what we do. This ain’t no throwback s—t. I never wanted to make this no throwback s—t. It just shows you that this type of s—t will never die if you do it correctly.
I was watching your Idea Generation interview with Noah, when you were talking about how you had that success, and then the game started changing, because I feel like you’re synonymous with that East Coast sound, and for a while that sound was like dying out. Can you talk about why that sound was able to have a resurgence?
The Alchemist: It did feel for a minute, not like she was dying, but like the commerce behind the whole s—t was dying. At that time, if you were doing the type of s—t we were doing — and you gotta give a lot of credit to Sean Price, he was one of the first dudes to kind of bridge this gap to where we’re at if you were doing the type of music we’re doing — people used to be like, “What’s going on down there? Y’all making any money?”
There wasn’t a direct-to-consumer ecosystem that we all collectively have created in the last 10-plus years with merch, vinyl, concerts. Basically us and a couple of other people, I think in necessity being the mother of invention, and being like, “Well, this is what we doing now, f—k these labels. Let’s start doing it ourselves the way we want to do it, no pressure.” And we built a world that became profitable. We all started showing our houses, cars, and people started seeing that tripping out because it was like, “Let me hear their music. They selling drugs? What’s going on?”
We created a legit ecosystem that was working, that came from us selling product directly to our fans, not compromising the sound, not doing something for radio, we built a world. And then, once we started making money, it was like people started paying attention. Money does some s—t. They heard the music the whole time, but once it started becoming successful, and they started seeing us with all the things that these other rappers got…we have real fans because we started from the ground up, so our show tickets actually sell. some of these bigger artists now, you look at their streaming numbers, you can’t book a show based on that, because those aren’t real fans, you gonna have an empty arena. Our s—t is real.
When you argue about the best rappers and some people bring up sales, it’s like, who gives a f—k? Jay or somebody might bring it up on a record, but at the end of the day, it’s about the quality. It’s a factor, but it doesn’t hold as much weight as some might think.
A.: That never mattered, but people respect success. Like, back in the day, they wouldn’t play wack s—t in the hood. They wouldn’t play MC Hammer. As the years changed, I remember when Nelly came out, he was dope, but he was more commercial, and they the streets playing it. They respect the money and success. And I feel like that’s one thing we had to prove with our music to get respect, they see what we doing and that it’s adding up.
If y’all was working with a label, they would’ve made you put an R&B song on the album. You had to play that game.
F.G.: Oh, they would’ve made us do a whole album of radio songs and we made one with out trying with the A.P. track [“Ensalada.”]
A.: It’s a gift and a curse, and I thought about this recently — because we all built this world that I just described in the last 10 years by doing it our own way. F—k radio, f—k everybody. Now our tours are amazing, our s—t is flourishing, but I kind of miss the pressure. This is the flip side. In the earlier days, my biggest records come from the era when we had to push to find a way to get in the Tunnel, to get on Flex. There was a little bit of pressure we had back then, and I don’t think we ever made no bulls—t to appeal to it, but thinking now, I was talking to Roc too like damn, we built this world in our comfort zone on our own, and now I want to push us. I wanna do what the A&R’s do to ourselves because I feel like we’re on a major scale with me and Freddie just did numbers. We playing with the big boys now.
I mean, you guys were nominated for a Grammy, man.
A.: I wanna push us now because we did it our our own, let’s put that pressure on us. I’m stubborn and he is too, I don’t want nobody telling me what to do. Let’s tell ourselves. Let’s be conscious of where we are now and stop acting like we’re in the underground. We’re making an effect on the whole rap game, like humbly, along with a lot of other people, but I’m just saying I know our value.
F.G.: You wasn’t seeing underground motherf—kers fly like a Roc Marciano. You weren’t seeing that s—t before. Now you’re seeing the f—king spoils of this s—t, they respecting it, and they can’t stop it. because we never conformed. We always made what we wanted to make.
You guys were able to go to Japan and make a short film.
A.: And even more so with the whole lead by example thing. I want this sh—t we’re doing to inspire the next motherf—kers. I realized that’s our job. I came up listening to Premier and I could name a bunch of other people who were like idols to me, and I’m like, damn, there’s some kids looking at us now like that. So, s—t, while we’re in the driver’s seat, we got to put that s—t out, and it helps inspire the next generation.
Has that been why you’ve been so adamant about working with the younger guys like ScHoolyboy, Earl, Action, Mac Miller, Curren$y?
A.: During that phase, I had already done a lot with like Mobb Deep, Dilated Peoples, and a string of others, right? And I felt like I could ride out and just have this, but I also started meeting guys like ScHoolboy. When I met Q for the first time, he was like, “1st Infantry,” like, “What you mean?” He was like, “I used to play your s—t like crazy.” That’s how we connected. The same s—t with Mac and some of these younger guys like Action. They were coming to me. They wanted me to do what I was doing. I was like, “This is dope.”
They wanted that sound.
A.: Coming up, I had to cater a little. Now they’re like, just do you and I got to tap in with this whole new batch of talent, which gave me a second run and enabled me to get to the point where me and Freddie could do Alfredo. There were stages of me to get to the point where even Freddie was like, “I’m ready to share a record with you,” because you got to think, when I did Return of the Mac and Covert Coup, my name wasn’t attached to them like it is now. I had to earn my position for rappers to approach me about doing collaborative projects together.
So, was it you that first reached out to Al like to work?
F.G.: It just happened organically.
We were working early 2000s people didn’t even know. We got records nobody never heard, we were tied in already.
F.G.: It was just me just hanging out and being like, “Hey, let’s do this.”
Al, what I was getting earlier was did you tap in with the younger generation because you thought about how Muggs and Lethal kinda put you under their wings and you felt like you had to kind of pay it forward?
A.: Not yet. Looking back now that I’m older, yeah, sure. It was more just happening with the next generation who were dope to me, but they also was f—kin’ with me.
You put me onto Boldy with My 1st Chemistry Set. I’m was like, “Who’s this cat?” And it was your name that made me listen to it and now him and Marci are probably my favorite rappers of the last 10 years or so. I was also gonna bring up something that you had tweeted recently where you said, “This tweet should be in a museum.”
A.: Oh, about Roc? Somebody found it first.
The tweet of you hitting Busta Rhymes trying to get in touch with Roc was right around the time Marcberg was about to drop. Do you remember if you had heard some of it already?
A.: I had met him a while back and I forget who was putting me on him at the time, but I was hearing his sh—t, and I was like I gotta link with him that’s why I hit Busta. From there we started working.
Word, because that was that album for me when it comes to this era. There was before Marcberg and after Marcberg.
A.: Absolutely, that was a big step. There were a lot of pieces to the puzzle. You go from there and I can name a bunch of projects.
I remember that time when the snap era was ending and the blog era was happening, and the east coast didn’t really have a definitive sound.
A.: It started to get a little burnt out.
I got cool with some skaters in college and they put me onto this flourishing underground scene with DOOM and Madlib and all of them was doing. It was kind of like you, Freddie. I’m from the hood, so I wasn’t really aware of them like that. I had already knew about the Liks and all that, and who Madlib was to an extent, but…
A.: You didn’t know how deep it went.
Word, and even with DOOM, it was like, damn, this dude was with KMD and running around with MC Serch back in the day, and it blew my mind.
F.G.: When Lambo took me to Stones Throw, I was like, “What the f—k is this sh—t? And he introduced me to Otis and he just started sending me some beats. I didn’t even know how the f—k I was gonna rap on them s—ts.
Talk about “Thuggin’” because you’ve mentioned how that unlocked a chamber for you.
F.G.: My boy Josh was like, “We gotta just figure it out,” so then we just start piecing it together and recording, and it just became a snowball effect. I wasn’t really hip to Madlib either, but those sessions made me a better rapper.
That Jaylib tape f—ked my head up. Were you up on Dilla since you’re from that area? Because that wasn’t mainstream sh—t.
F.G.: It wasn’t. Lambo put me on and unfortunately, he passed before we could ever do something. During that time when I was learning about MF DOOM and what they were doing at Stone Throw, I started working with Otis and the crazy part is I was still signed to Jeezy. So, I would take a lot of the sh—t that I was doing with him and be like, “Listen to this, this is what I’m doing right now.” That motherf—ker would look at me like, “You weird, bro. What is this? You’re supposed to be making songs like Meek Mill.”
He didn’t see the vision.
A.: S—t was starting to change. For me, I just moved around 2010 back to LA and built a studio. There’s kind of like a change, if you studied my whole run. Once I moved back to LA, I was hanging my man Hip-Hop — Kyambo — and he was around me a lot, and he was always a big underground fan, even though he worked for Roc-A-Fella. That’s right when Born Like This came out and of course, I knew DOOM, but during the Mobb Deep days I had tunnel vision, so there was a lot of s—t I missed. Even with the Jaylib stuff, I always knew Otis from the early Lootpack days and me and his brother Oh No have a group together, I started listening to that stuff around 2010, 2011, and he had a bunch of Madlib beat tapes and that s—t f—ked me up. I remember specifically hitting Madlib up like, “You’re insane.”
I always wondered if he influenced you because you can hear it like the way you use tv or movie samples.
A.: I tell him that all the time. Roc Marci did too. All my friends inspire me. I was more strict with my style. And I think if you ask Pete Rock, he’ll tell you the same thing happened with him and Dilla. Listen to Pete’s old s—t, it was formulated, the high hats, the horn. Once he started listening to Dilla, it cracked his head and he got freer. Now, you could hear a Pete Rock beat, you’re not sure if he did it or not. Same thing happened with me with Madlib. He would do this style and this genre and this one is live. I would hear his beat tapes and just be like, I want to be freer. I want to be more vast with my s—t.
And I still find it interesting that you still have that darkness to your s—t that I feel like comes from Soul Assassins when you were with Muggs during the early days.
A.: For sure. Muggs is the master, which is crazy because I always did what he did. I learned so much from him. That’s my point. We all inspire each other.
Word, you can still hear that DNA in your s—t.
A.: Yeah, my man Riggs used to call me the Minister of Sinister.
So, was Fetti always part of this series?
F.G.: I say so.
A.: It’s definitely apart of our lineage.
Did you already have Alfredo planned already?
A.: Not at all.
F.G.: I would say that kind of inspired me to be like, you know what? I’m about to do something, just me and Al.
A.: That’s where we saw the potential. Well, first it was on “Scottie Pippen.” Then I remember we were tapped in at the time, but not working how we are now, nd I remember he was pitching Devil’s Palace. He already had a name. He had a whole idea, but I wasn’t ready yet. I wasn’t at the place I’m at now.
You said for Fetti that you came up with the artwork, you did this, you did that.
F.G.: I was trying to make it happen, man.
A.: He had the idea early. I didn’t see it yet. A lot of times it’d be about timing. We let s—t culminate to Alfredo.
F.G.: I was hungry. I wanted to really show what I could do.
A.: And I don’t know who came up the name. I think Lambo came up with the name.
Lambo: Making a song for GTA 5.
A.: That song was called “Fetti.”
L.: Then we started making a joke, like fettuccine alfredo, Al and Freddie.
A.: Right, right. Shout out to Rockstar because they were the first to put us three together: me, Freddie and Spitta. Those are our friends. I gotta say somewhere in this lineage, we gotta give them some credit too because it all sprouted from there. But once we locked in, it was like we knew we had something with Alfredo 1.
Are you gonna have your own channel on GTA 6?
A.: I can neither confirm nor deny.
I assumed so. You already said that.
A.: And Freddie I’m sure he could neither confirm nor deny.
What made you guys want to take it to Japan on this next one?
F.G.: Just really, to be honest, it was just a theme. I just wanted to do a theme that I wasn’t seeing in rap and I had went the year before to Japan, and was super inspired by the architecture, the art, the food, everything. The first one was kind of like Italian mafia-style and with this one, I was like, let’s go Yakuza with this. It was all about creating the world, man, and with this album we had more freedom because we got to do the film.
A Grammy nomination will do that.
F.G.: Now, I don’t even wanna do an album without a film. There’s gotta be something with it, you know. Can’t be just giving you a bunch of songs on a Friday and forget about them by Monday.
A.: I think it just feels like the right thing to do. It feels like more mature.
It makes it feel premium.
A.: We’re in the field of entertainment. We’re in the big leagues, I feel like we can do whatever we want. He already acts, he’s been in s—t. So, for me, it was just making sure I could keep up with him, because I actually enjoy it. I never thought I would. We make music, I don’t sit in the f—king mirror and look at myself and be like, render a laugh, render a smile. But when we shoot s—t and I’ll be thinking I’m making a certain face and I see the footage later, I’ll be like, I gotta look in the mirror because that’s not what I thought I was doing. It’s a challenge, it’s fun for me to step into a world where we’re like acting.
Were there any movies that inspired the short film? Some scenes from it reminded me of Tokyo Vice. Have you guys watched that show?
F.G.: Me and Lambo is watching that s—t, like, what? Two years ago?
L.: Bianco Bianco worked on Tokyo Vice. So, the Tokyo production team from our movie worked on Tokyo Vice.
That makes sense because some of the scenes while outside the restaurant reminded me of Tokyo Vice.
F.G.: My favorite Yakuza movie is Outrage, so I was thinking about that when we were making the short film.
I was nervous about this interview. I was like, “Is he gonna troll me like he does on Twitter?”
A.: [Laughs.] Nah, we in an interview, son.
That s—t be funny. Somebody asks him a question and he replies with some crazy s—t.
A.: That’s my airplane entertainment, I just be having fun. I feel like it’s cool to talk to people too, because in this era where a lot of artists aren’t really there, you know that’s me, for better or worse, it’s f—king me, so I like to just reach out. Also, it’s cool to have that line for people to be able to reach you and know you’re a real human.
And you’re already doing direct to consumer on the business side, so that makes sense.
A.: When I do the pop ups, it’s not even to make money. If tomorrow I promote that I’m going to be at this store, you’re gonna get the die hards. These are the people that f—king help pay our mortgage and everything. I want to meet them. I want to say, “What’s up? Peace” and sign something. When you do a show and you’re on stage and you make eye contact with one fan for one second — I’ve been a fan in the crowd — and you’re watching your favorite artist, if they look at you and make eye contact, you get that one second like, “They recognize me,” and you’ll go home happy. When you do these pop ups, they get to come up and talk to you.
You feel that love.
A.: They appreciate it so much and it’s way better than going to the merch booth after the show, when you’re sweating and s—t and trying to sell a bunch of vinyl and get back to the hotel.
F.G.: I want the hoes to freak on me like they do Chris Brown.
Those Chris Brown pics be crazy.
F.G.: Bruh, he got the best meet and greet.
You gotta figure out a price point. He be charging $1,000.
F.G.: Oh, yeah, we about to do it. It’s lit.
A.: He gotta do no men, though.
F.G.: Yo, the ones with dudes be crazy.
I saw someone on joking around on Twitter, saying imagine telling wifey what you did that that band missing from the joint bank account.
A.: “I’m sorry, baby.”
Him and Chris were doing like a jail pose.
F.G.: And Chris was sitting there lookin’ at the n—a like, “What are you doing, bro?”
Did you learn any martial arts while you was filming? That s—t was like Kill Bill.
F.G.: I know a little somethin’. I’m crafty with the sword.
A.: He cut that orange for real. That was insane.
F.G.: I had to train a little bit. I got in crazy shape for it. I was running every morning and working out. I was like, yeah, I wanna make this s—t look crazy.
A.: No special effects, he does his own stunts.
Are you planning on acting more?
F.G.: Yeah, I got a couple films that’s about to come out. I got a horror movie that’s about to drop, the vampire joint, Night Patrol. I just did that and then I got another movie that I just signed on for called Lifeboat. There’s a couple of things that I’m working on.
The crossover begins.
The project you have with Erykah Badu is on the way. How do you feel about it?
A.: I’m still bugging that I have a record with her. It’s coming out, it’s finished. This is a big step for me. When you hear it, you’ll see that I didn’t jump out of my element.
I loved the first single.
A.: I don’t know if that’s a good representation, it just felt like that one was catchy because of the beat, obviously, and it reminded us of like some Ron G mixtape s—t, so we were like let’s just let it fly. I promise you, that’s the only record on the album that’s not original.
What I was getting at is it’s crazy that she picked the beat from “The Realest” because that’s one of my favorite songs. And while I feel like I was aware of you by then, I couldn’t believe that you really started to make your name and blow up around Mobb Deep’s Murda Muzik.
A.: If you put my career as a producer on a timeline, it would be before Mobb Deep and after Mobb Deep.
Whenever I hear that song, I remember going to the bootleg liquor spot in my childhood neighborhood back in the day. Havoc didn’t help you with that beat at all?
A.: I had that beat on a DAP tape. I had like 25 beats on this DAP, and I didn’t know them yet, I knew Big Twin and them, and they said, “Come to the studio to play beats for Mobb Deep.” So, I would go and it would be Prodigy but Havoc wasn’t there. I played them all these fancy beats on my DAP and then it was one joint.
That was just a loop right?
A.: Back then, I wouldn’t have made beats like that, because that’s like a one shot loop, nothing fancy.
It’s a perfect beat.
A.: I would put those on beat tapes as interludes. So, P listened to all these beats that I crafted and chopped up, and he heard that and goes, “I like this one.” I was like, “The interlude?” Then I came back like two days later, and Havoc was there and he picked the same beat.
That’s just crazy. It’s fascinating that they picked the same beat. I know that probably felt surreal.
A.: Havoc is such a good producer and they don’t really let people in. I learned so much from him, it’s insane.
I’m assuming you guys are looking to make another one, right? Finish the trilogy.
F.G.: Yeah, for sure. Hell yeah.
A.: It’s a franchise. We can stop now.
There’s a video of you digging for records at an undisclosed location.
A.: Sounds about right.
What sticks out to you when you’re digging?
A.: It’s through all these years and years. It’s like a checklist of things that I go over in my brain when I’m looking for a record, over 20 things. You kind of do a quick inventory, bring a list with years, artists, labels, what the grooves look like; I can tell you 100 things. It’s just Intuition through the years, and it’s just part of the hunt. It keeps you on your toes too, just the idea of discovery.
Can you talk about the convo you had with Benny?
F.G.: Oh, yeah, we can talk about it. I mean, it was nothing. I didn’t have no conversation with him.
There’s a picture where it looks like you guys were talking.
F.G.: That was fake, man. That was some WWF s—t. I seen them, but there wasn’t no conversation. All that’s fake, it’s all propaganda that they tried to create. I didn’t have no convo with Westside Gunn. I seen them, but, you know, we in an airport. I’m like, “Man, this ain’t the time to come talk to me.” See, my arms was folded. First of all, man, I got the No. 1 independent album in the country and I can understand how motherf—kers want to reach and do s—t and use your energy to promote themselves. I just don’t let people do that. I think motherf—kers was trying to just take my energy away because my s—t is doing so well. I don’t got no problem, man. I just do me and I don’t even pay attention to that s—t. That wasn’t what people thought it was, man.
I guess it got people talking and excited because you guys made good music together.
F.G.: Who?
You and Benny.
F.G.: I mean, I make good music. You know, sometimes you’re fortunate to get on a song with me you gonna feel the effects of it. Bill Cartwright wouldn’t have championship without Michael Jordan, but without him, what he got? You feel me? It is what it is, man, I’m just good at what I do. It just let me know the type of person I am, and the type of caliber I am that people want to do crazy s—t to attach themselves what I got going on.
I’m just keeping it about the music, man, and doing what I gotta do. I don’t even pay no attention to all that Internet s—t. I’m an artist. I’m not an influencer. I use the Internet to post midgets getting f—ked and people getting shot. I don’t care about no other rappers, nothing they got going on, man. It’s just about me in that booth and me doing what I gotta do. God bless everybody.
I wasn’t really trying to be on some controversial s—t. People were hyped and I assumed you and Benny had talked. Okay, let’s switch gears. Al, you send Future some beats.
A.: Uh, I have in the past. Nothing landed yet, but you know.
F.G.: I love Future too. I wanna work with him one day. That’s one of my favorite rappers. He does something that I don’t do. That’s why I like him. It’s like he made his own genre. He influenced a lot of the young guys.
The real rap conversation surrounding be funny because he’s Dungeon Family. How much real rap can you get? And they named him Future.
F.G.: Correct. His name should be that.
A.: I’m a fan of Future, I f—k with him, and I can’t give up too much.
I be seeing you on Twitter.
A.: I say nothing and they run with it.
You never know if he’s trolling on there.
A.: Hey, man.
F.G.: Future is like the king of doing melodies. He got some of the best melodies with his flow in the way he gets on a record. He just know how make that s—t into something different. That’s why he is where his is. He kinda sits alone.
A.: He kind of rules this generation in terms of influence to me. There’s a couple others that you could put up there, but when I think of this generation, they all f—k with Future like in the way when he was coming up, it was like Jay or somebody.
F.G.: He had n—as wearing cowboy hats at Sunday brunch, when cowboy hats. That n—a’s mad influential.
A.: And Metro’s the man too. He has the best beat tag of all time. “Young Metro don’t trust you. I’m gonna shoot you.” Fire. I wish that was my beat tag. Metro is incredible, we haven’t even seen where he’s going yet.
F.G.: I love Metro. Metro made me leave Italy when I was with Kanye.
Bro, what? What you mean?
A.: [Laughs.] Man, don’t tell that story.
F.G.: I’m just gonna leave it there. [Laughs.]
Switching gears again. Do you feel like you’re a better producer now than you were 10-20, years ago?
A.: 100 percent. I pay attention to more things. There’s an innocence about you when you’re younger. When I listen to my old beats and I think about the s—t I didn’t know. I’m way better now. There’s fans who will be like, “I love that era from 2000 to 2004,” and I’m not even mad at them because there’s peaks and valleys, and that was a time where I had access to the some of the best rappers to ever do it, and they were also all selling records.
Anyone who knows me knows I’m way better now than I was then, and I could say that with confidence and still not be mad if a guy is like, “I don’t really like your new s—t. I like that older s—t better.” Cool, I get it, because that’s what it’s about. You got to know where you’re at. Not everyone is on this walk that you’re on. We movin’. Some people stay with me the whole path and remember this phase and that phase and they understand what I’m saying. They know I’m better.
F.G.: My grandma always said s—t gets greater later. I think that we both just evolving as artists, and we’re getting better and showing the longevity.
A.: He pushes himself. He don’t want to do nothing regular. it’s never gonna be the same record, the same flow. He might go into the melody bag. He’s a dynamic MC. He got a lot of bags he could pick from, and I think that sets him apart from a lot of guys in our world, because some of them don’t have the same toolbox. That helps us to go even further.
We do some stuff together, a lot of s—t he does on his own, in his spot with his engineer, and they send it to me. I like to be there because I enjoy it. It’s dope to see him come up with the rhyme and layer it. And we did a lot of the record like that.